Professor J. D. Y. Peel, anthropologist, sociologist, and eminent scholar on religion in Yorubaland, who was then a professor emeritus at the School of Oriental and African Studies (SOAS), spoke with Chief Olanrewaju Adepoju, poet and social critic, in May 2008 in the latter’s Ibadan home. Peel interviewed the famous poet while conducting research for his book Christianity, Islam and Orisa Religion Three Traditions in Comparison and Interaction (University of California Press, 2015. The open access book can be accessed here: https://www.luminosoa.org/site/books/m/10.1525/luminos.8/) Peel died November 2, 2015, while Adepoju died on December 10, 2023.
Peel: Can we begin by asking you where you were born, about your childhood and about your early life?
Adepoju: Thank you very much, Prof. Peel. You are welcome to your second home. The story of my life is very interesting. I was a village boy. I was born into a village called Oke-Popa, via Akufo in Ido Local Government Area of Oyo State. In that village, I grew up with purely indigenous people. The language of communication with my people was purely Yoruba. Unfortunately, I didn’t have any opportunity of going to school. My parents didn’t send me to school at all.
I started educating myself when I was already past the school age. When I realised the importance of education, I started saving money.
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Peel: How old were you when you when you decided to educate yourself?
Adepoju: Well, I was about maybe fourteen or fifteen.
Peel: Wasn’t there a school in the village already?
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A: No. There was no school in that village, but there was a nursery and primary school at Akufo which is not very far from our village but maybe because of the fact that my parents didn’t realise the importance of education, they didn’t send me to school. So when I saved money up to one… and six pence with which I bought my first textbook ever, ABD Olope in those days. And my younger cousin, Muyili Oyedele, who had already completed his primary education started teaching me how to recognise the Yoruba alphabet.
Peel: … and your parents were Muslims?
Adepoju: Yes. They were Muslims, I was born into a Muslim family… So, within one week or so I had finished the entire content of that book because of pure interest in the admirable use of Yoruba language. So, I was able to read and write legibly in Yoruba. I moved to the city of Ibadan where I started learning English language and you know the same way I started learning Yoruba language, I quickly caught up with the use of English language. By that time, my age group, some of whom were my friends, were already in the colleges.
Peel: What year was it when you moved to Ibadan?
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Adepoju: When I moved to Ibadan… that was around… I can’t remember the exact year. But it was between 1958 and 1959.
Peel: Was Adelabu [Adegoke] still alive then?
Adepoju: Adelabu died in 1958 and[shortly] after his death, I moved to Ibadan. I think it was late 1958. So, as I was saying, I started learning English and the then Western Library became more or less my second home because of my frequent visits to that place, reading various types of books. I was also visiting my friends who were already in the college, the University of Ibadan, I was so frequent there that I became more or less an unrecognised student of that institution.
Peel: Was that British Library or the Western Library that you used?
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Adepoju: Public library. I used to meet my friends there. Even the books that were beyond my capacity as a learner, I would take such books and read. I will understand some part of it, and not understand some parts. I made use of the available dictionary to help me. Simply put, I am a self-made man. I got myself educated without any formal classroom education.
Peel: Can you tell me which English books you liked to read best?
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Adepoju: All manner of books. It may be history, geography and teach-yourself-English books, teach yourself-electricity, and so on and so forth. I was reading anything that came my way. I was reading a lot. I read newspapers, even if I didn’t understand most of the things they wrote there, but essentially I became knowledgeable enough to read and write English.
Peel: What job were you doing at this time?
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Adepoju: Well, I was doing a lot of odd jobs like houseboy for sometime; newspaper vendor at times; petrol attendant… Until a time when I was invited by the newspaper establishment, I was offered employment as a proof-reader. I was proofreading Imole Owuro. It was a Yoruba newspaper and then Sunday Style. Both were owned by the same people, and I was able to read those papers. I proofread both of them and until I okayed each of them they would not publish. So, from that place, I started taking part in radio and TV programmes as a freelance artist. It got to a stage when the defunct Western Nigeria TV and Western Nigeria Broadcasting Service (WNTV-WNBS) invited me to come and present programmes for them. When they were pleased with what I was doing, they offered me employment as a contract officer. So I was in that my broadcasting days. I was responsible for the production and presentation of programmes like Tiwantiwa, a Yoruba magazine programme on radio, Karo o jiire on TV. I was producing and presenting Gbelegbo, a musical chit-chat programme. I was producing WNTV playhouse series involving thirteen different drama groups. I was singularly overloaded with news reading. I was reading thirteen news a week and occasionally manning the continuity. So in all, it was a tough training ground for me.
Peel: There must be somebody who discovered you, who heard you, who realised that… Was there somebody who picked you up, was your patron and promoted you, showed you opportunities?
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Adepoju: No. It sounds incredible when tell people that I am a self-made man; that I didn’t go to school at all. I did everything on my own effort; except when I was invited for news reading. When I was auditioning for news reading, a senior colleague auditioned me for news reading.
Peel: Who was that?
Adepoju: Adebayo Faleti. He is also a poet, an author, a broadcaster and filmmaker. He is also a playwright. He was one of my senior colleagues in broadcasting. So when I was in broadcasting, he didn’t believe that I didn’t go to school. So when they asked about my paper qualifications, I said I had none.
Peel: Did he admire you because you spoke pure Yoruba?
Adepoju: They admired my effective communication power. You know, because I spoke Yoruba very well and the way I presented my programmes in those days attracted a number of people. I was producing and presenting Yoruba poems on radio, Ijinji Akewi, at 6:15 am every morning. It was not until it became a popular programme that other poets started contributing to it. I talked about any topic. I used my own poems to discuss any topic, be it political, economic or religious.
Peel: What were the topical issues at that time? Was it when Awolowo became Premier or was it when he went to prison? What was the politics of the day when you were given these topical issues?
Adepoju: Well, Awolowo was no longer in power at that time. It was during the military era. At times, when I read my poems on radio or TV, the controller of programmes and my immediate boss would write a memo querying me, why did you write a poem on this topic or that topic. They would say I was editorialising on air. I would say, well, truly speaking, we are dealing with the people; there is nothing wrong with it. So, I was busy answering, preparing my poems and also answering queries.
Peel: Did you take a particular political line? Whether you criticised the military?
Adepoju: They were fearful of the military men. They didn’t want to lose their jobs.
Peel: What were the kind of things you said that they worried about?
Adepoju: There was a particular time when I suspected that some of the senior officials of the corporation were messing up with the ladies in their offices and I wrote a poem, Gongo so! describing how such things happen on the carpet.
Peel: So you were criticising the senior managers for their immoral behaviour?
Adepoju: Yes. Although that happened only once. There was a time when there was a scarcity of cement, I commented on it; and there was a time when kidnappers were all over the place, I criticised government for not making enough effort to arrest the ugly situation. There was another time when I realised that the rate of unemployment was high and government was not doing anything about it, I wrote a poem to the effect that a lamentable situation had been created. Because of that, at each step the controller of programmes confessed that he became rather apprehensive about the contents of my poems. But they could not sack me. They couldn’t do anything to me except saying that “why did you do this? Please, defend yourself and tell us why severe disciplinary action should not be brought against you”.
Peel: Did they ever threaten to dismiss you?
Adepoju: They were not threatening to dismiss me, but they were asking me to moderate, you know, to play it down. So they were all cowards. But I remained undaunted. Where some of them were trying to blackmail me, I told them, look, I am not the type of person that you can blackmail into submission. I resisted being bullied. So, the struggle continued and still continues.
It got to a stage that my poems became popular both on radio and TV that anywhere our senior colleagues went they will ask them about me. When my production became so popular on radio and TV, the corporation wanted to publish my poems with the copyright reverting to the corporation. It was that arrangement that I resisted.
Peel: They wanted to take the copyright away from you and have it WNTV (Western Nigeria Television)?
Adepoju: Yes. I told them that I was the creator of my works. So the corporation comes in when it wants it to be broadcast. No more, no less. So, it got to a stage when they wrote a letter threatening that I should submit the script of my past ewi on or before a particular date failing which I should be prepared to face the consequences. So, as I used to tell people, when you see a lion, it is time to run. So, I handed in my resignation, and I paid them one month salary in lieu of notice. So, that was how I left broadcasting.
Peel: What year was that?
Adepoju: 1975 or so. So, I decided to establish my own company because I believed very much in what I could do. If I could do such certain things and became so popular on radio and TV, there was no reason I should not be able to make my own effort.
Peel: So you have been working for WNTV for ten years…?
Adepoju: Yes. I decided to be on my own. I established my own record company under the label Lanre Adepoju Records which later metamorphosed into Lanrad Records Limited. So, I saw that as a better business name. With regard to the practice of my Yoruba poetry, so say most of my messages are about the essence of God through the chosen Islamic religion…. I have used my medium right from my broadcasting days to fight corruption, violence, robbery, oppression, exploitation and all kinds of societal ills. In the course of this however, I have stepped on powerful toes. I have been harassed and molested by security agents on a number of occasions. I had been arrested, detained and charged to court for sedition.
Peel: Can you tell the times when the authorities came for you?
Adepoju: It was during the military years. All were during the military years. Even when I advertised that my record was coming out soon, the security people would visit me on regular basis to know the content. This was under Generals Buhari and Babangida…. It was worse in the 1980s. But I remained undaunted. I have never succumbed to blackmail and intimidation and I continued to remind the leader and the led of their responsibilities.
Peel: You said the basis of your poetry was the essence of God; to preach against corruption, and violence. Was it like that from the beginning or did you bring religion in as you went on?
Adepoju: Well, right from my childhood, I knew about the existence of God and the supremacy of God meant a lot to me right from my childhood. So this continues to develop in me to the extent that in my adult life, I hardly waxed any record without reference to God, the creator of everything that exist and as a chief in Ibadan, that is the Alaasa of Ibadanland, I have used my medium of ewi, metaphysical poetry, to admonish people of wrangling; especially with regard to the obstacle which such wrangling constituted to the speedy development and orderly progress of our fatherland. So, in appreciation of my modest contribution to the development of Ibadanland in particular, I was given the important honorary chieftancy title of the Alaasa of Ibadanland.
Peel: When was that?
Adepoju: It was during the Bola Ige years. [Editor’s note: This was after Ige had left office – during the early years of the General Ibrahim Babangida era]
Peel: Who was the Olubadan then?
Adepoju: Oba Asanike was the Olubadan who gave it to me and my investiture did not carry any form of fetish as the ceremony was done in the open with the placing of the Akoko leaf on my head.
Peel: What is the meaning of the title, Alaasa?
Adepoju: It means the …. bearer and the role of Alaasa bear similarity to that of a traditional minister of internal affairs who is the protector of the interests of the various segments of the populace.
Peel: Were you the first person to be the Alaasa, or was there one before you?
Adepoju: The Alaasa before me was Bola Ige, but when he insulted the Olubadan and the Soun of Ogbomoso, he was stripped of that title. He referred to the Olubadan as a mere baale. And the Ibadan people gathered and said, “look, this man has insulted position of the Olubadan”. With that, the Ibadan people were looking for a replacement for him. I was one of the people asked to look for a replacement. We visited Justice Ogundare, we visited Justice Emmanuel Fakayode with a view to convincing any of them to take the title. They both refused. So when we went to the late Olubadan, the late Oba Ogundipe—he was not yet an Olubadan at that time—asked me, “have we given you any title?” I said no. Then he said, you match him (Ige) word for word, action for action. So, I left them, and said count me out. Ogundipe was the Balogun. So Are Arisekola and Justice Fakayode were phoning me to try to convince me, until the Olubadan called me himself and said, it was not his own making, because even the driver and the palace staff were saying it should be me. So, you can’t escape it.
Peel: Were you known for having a political position then?
Adepoju: You know, originally, I was a member of the Unity Party of Nigeria (UPN) which Chief Awolowo founded and led. But it got to a stage where I had to address a press conference withdrawing my membership of the party and at the same time counselling the people of Nigeria to adopt the four cardinal programmes of Chief Awolowo. So, I withdrew my membership of that party. I remained politically neutral since then. But I left because there were certain things I was not happy with that Bola Ige and others were doing. Since then, I have not joined any political party.
Peel: It sounds like you were sympathetic to Awolowo but did not like some of the things the UPN were doing at the time?
Adepoju: Yes. Especially at the state level. Awolowo was not in a position to use any power. He feared that any of them could become another Akintola. You know, then as a community leader and religious leader, I have been interested in bringing about the much-desired collective happiness for the generality of our people irrespective of cultural or tribal affiliation, political or religious bias.
Peel: Could you tell me what was it about the UPN policy at the state level that you did not like?
Adepoju: Well, not that they deviate completely from the laid down principles of the party; but they were doing certain things that were not in consonance with the people-oriented policies of Chief Awolowo. With that, I knew that sooner or later, they would end up not achieving much. So, I left at the right time. He even offered me a board appointment, he wrote to me that I should be a member of …. but I rejected it.
Peel: Was that Awo?
Adepoju: No. Bola Ige. I knew I would not like to serve in a place where I would not be able to say things according to my conscience. So, I decided not to take up the appointment. So, my role as a poet and a religious leader does not allow me to do things against the will of God. I want to say, with all sense of modesty and responsibility that my poetry has travelled around the globe, and I have transcended being described as a local poet because I am the President of Association of Yoruba Poets (Egbe Akewi Yoruba) and by God’s own design, I remain incontrovertibly the master of Yoruba poetry. No doubt about it. No controversy at all. It is a fact which is empirically verifiable that my works are very popular with various segments of the Nigerian society, intellectual giants and the ordinary man in the street.
My works are very popular among the Yoruba-speaking people in Europe and America, and Africa and elsewhere in the world where Yoruba-speaking peoples live in numbers. So, more or less, I can say, I am an international man. And I have made ewi to become an agency of mass communication, like radio and TV.
Peel: Did you publish any book of ewi?
Adepoju: My first book of poetry was published by Onibonoje Press. I call it Ironu Akewi (Thoughts of a Poet). There are other two published works by the same publisher. Ladepo Omo Adanwo and So Agba Di Were, both are plays and each of those books had been adopted as textbooks, even up to the university level in the past. I have a lot of other unpublished works. I have a lorry load of poems; some of them are awaiting publication.
Peel: And you still compose poetry?
Adepoju: Yes. I hope during my proposed celebration of forty years anniversary as a poet, I would come out with some of them, and translate them into English in other to reach a wider audience. And when that is achieved, I will feel fulfilled.
Peel: Were you born into a Muslim family?
Adepoju: I was born into a Muslim family, although nominal Muslim family at that time. As the same time, they were practising Islam as I met my father, mother, my brothers and sisters, we were all Muslims.
Peel: Were you sent to Quranic school?
Adepoju: Not at all. I got myself education in the Western way. I have taught myself in the Arabic language as well.
Peel: When did you start to learn to read Arabic?
Adepoju: That was about 1994 or so.
Peel: Can you tell us your opinion as a Muslim?
Adepoju: As a matter of fact, there was a break. One year when I travelled to England, in London, I was passing through … and I saw an Islamic bookshop. I can’t remember the name at the moment. But I saw it so, out of curiosity, I decided to go in there. I started looking at the titles.
Peel: What year was that?
Adepoju: 1985. I saw one title that caught my attention, The Life of Muhammad [Editor’s note: Originally published in 1935]. I have been wanting to know about this man. So, I bought the book. When I returned to the hotel, I busied myself reading the book until I finished the entire content. It was that book which changed my orientation completely in favour of Islam.
Peel: Do you remember who wrote the book?
Adepoju: One Dr. [Muhammad Husayn] Haykal. Although after understanding Islam to a reasonable extent, I discovered that the book contained some errors. But it was the first work that really assisted me in reconsidering my stand. Prior to that time, I had already been in Christianity. I was a Christian for about 12 years. Although I was born into a Muslim family, I changed to Christianity. I was not going to any church, but I was invited by various churches. I didn’t go to any of them, but I was busy with…. science. I did nearly all branches of …. science…. Christian science.
Peel: It sounds like you were seeking for the truth?
Adepoju: Yes, thank you; very much so. You got it. So, when I read about Islam and when I came back from that trip that year, 1985, I went straight to my library to search for a copy of the Holy Quran which I knew was already there by Yusuf Alli; the English translation of the Quran. So, I took it and read it page by page like I had read the Bible before. So, the Quran verses and the explanatory notes there too.
Peel: So, you read the Bible before you read the Quran?
Adepoju: I read it several times over.
The interview was transcribed by Wale Adebanwi, Peel’s student, who was present during the chat.
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